A conversation with Trash Tape Records
Transcript from episode five of the Good Folk Podcast.
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Spencer George: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Good Folk podcast. My name is Spencer George, I am the creator and writer here at Good Folk. I am joined today by Victoria Landers, our podcast producer and head of media and design, as well as the folks of Trash Tape Records, a youth-run worldwide DIY record label founded in March of 2020. The label is run by Nathan McMurray, Evren Centeno, and Eilee Centeneo, and until recently was run primarily out of the triangle area of North Carolina. Nathan and Evren going to college in Chicago and Asheville, respectively, will lead to the label being run from multiple different places. Trash Tape strives to support young and unknown artists by distributing and promoting their music as well as doing physical releases of some projects in the form of cassette tapes. I'm going to turn it over to each of them in a minute to introduce themselves, but they are very cool. They are very underground, kind of doing everything themselves, which is amazing. And as many of you know, a really hard feat. They have artists from all around the world and just finished a tour to promote some of their artists. So we're going to be talking about a lot of really exciting things. I'm really thrilled to be joined by all three of the members of Trash Tape and I'm going to turn it over to them to introduce themselves and add anything I might have missed. Whoever wants to jump in first.
Nathan McMurray: I'm Nathan, I do a lot of the stuff at Trash Tape. I don't really know how to introduce myself that well. I live in Durham, but I'm moving to Chicago in like two weeks.
Evren Centeno: I'm Evren. I started the label with Nathan— best friends linking up during quarantine. You can't see the video, but Nathan's making silly faces and things. I’ve lived in Asheville now for a week because I just moved into college, just finished my first week of classes. I’m from Carrboro, I lived there for four years, and before that, from Jersey. So I'm one of those transplants.
Eilee Centeno: I'm Eilee, Evren's older sister. I joined Trash Tape a little after Evan and Nathan started it because I was like, hey, include me. I want to be a part of this. This is awesome. I'm still in the triangle area because I go to NC State. So I live in Raleigh, and lived in Carrboro for a few years. Also originally from Jersey, but love the North Carolina music scene and we're all so excited to get to talk to you guys. Thank you for having us.
SG: Anytime. I've read a little bit about your origin story from what I could find on the Internet, but I would love to hear it in your own words. Nathan and Evren: how did you meet? How did you come up with this idea? Was creating a record label something that you always kind of wanted to do, or was it just 2020? Good Folk started in 2020 as well, and I think a lot of projects kind of came to life during that time. If either or both of you want to talk a little bit more about that origin story, jump on in.
EVC: I'll start on that. Nathan was the one who came up to me and approached me, and we became friends. Merge Records is, of course, a huge label in the local area and they’re local legends, and Nathan and I were both attending the Merge 30 Festival at Cat’s Cradle. Telekinesis had just played, and I was, like, standing near the back of the venue. I’m about fifteen at the time, and Nathan is also fifteen. Nathan taps me on the shoulder, and his opening words were like, we're the only two people under fifty here.
And that was the first thing he said to me. He was like, do you like any cool music? And then he just, like, rattled off, like, fifteen bands, and I was like, yeah, I'm into them. I'm into them. We should jam. Let's make music together. We weren't, like, friends, really, before we started making music. The first time we hung out was to make music. So in a way, that's kind of always been the basis of our relationship. It's pretty cool how it's transformed, both the friendship and the musical relationship over time.
As for the label, it kind of was a dream of mine. I always correlate the idea for a label to reading about the collective Elephant 6, which were in Athens, Georgia, in the nineties. Bands like of Montreal, Neutral Milk Hotel, Olivia Tremor Control, all of these small DIY acts who are helping each other and cultivating a local scene. That's kind of what I usually pinpoint it to as my aspirations for it, just being inspired by that. But it even goes back to when I was in middle school and I was really into the band Brockhampton and just the fact that they were a group of a bunch of friends making music and it really always inspired me.
SG: I feel like you’re aging me so much because I remember listening to Brockhampton, but in college. I'm hearing you say middle school and I'm like, oh my god. But it’s also amazing because it just goes to show how entrenched you were in this world at such a young age. And you are all still very young, and I'm going to let you finish now. [laughs]
EVC: But that's kind of where I would say it started. But Nathan— I don't know what Nathan's perspective is on it. So I'll let him take the reins.
NM: Evren got the whole meeting thing really spot on. I remember because we started jamming in August of 2019. Writing songs together and stuff like that, and then after we started to become closer. We became friends as we started to play songs together more and then started to sometimes hang out outside of just playing music. We also started talking about doing a label or collective kind of thing. But it always seemed like more of a good dream, because neither of us were really entrenched in any local scene or had many local friends that made music.
But then when lockdown hit, I guess everybody sort of went inside. And one night at like two or three am, whatever, Evren texted me, and then a group of a few other people, with the hopes of getting some sort of collective together. But since it was lockdown, it naturally happened on the internet first. And that led to it being more decentralized and based all over the world..
EVC: Yeah, I knew a bunch of people on Instagram who made music, so naturally the first people I reached out to with this idea were those people. That was the base of it, but it really started as an internet label. Nathan, I think actually the first time we really talked about it, too, was when you ordered something at All Day Records in Carrboro, and we went to go pick it up. And as we were driving there, we were talking about that.
SG: For people who aren't super familiar with North Carolina, could you tell us a little bit about the local music scene here? What is Cat’s Cradle for someone who doesn’t know anything about it?
NM: It's the place, it's where everybody plays.
EIC: It's the best venue ever.
NM: It's the local club that most indie bands, or I guess any band or artist that has a sizable following, but not like stadium big or whatever, go to play. So I guess it's like the biggest club here. That's where you see your favorite artist, if your favorite artist is a pop star.
EVC: Eilee and I have probably been to over fifty shows there.
NM: I probably started going there when I was like, thirteen. I moved here when I was five. So from like thirteen to now, I've seen way more shows. I've been in that building way more times than I would like to count. Like, not that I could count. I probably would like to count that high.
SG: So, you basically grew up in Cat’s Cradle in a lot of ways, right? Like, this is almost a place where, like, you experience teenagehood in a really interesting way, which a lot of teenagers don't get access to such an incredible music scene. And Cat’s Cradle now, I mean they own Haw River Ballroom, they do stuff at the Ritz, at Pinhook in Durham. I just went to a show put on by Cat’s Cradle there. They're really expanding throughout Carrboro as well, and kind of becoming symbolic of the music scene for the entire triangle, which is, I mean, in the last week alone, I think I've been to, what, five, six concerts. It surrounds you here in a way that I think is really unique and specific to the area.
EVC: It's so legendary. It's like, even when I was at that age, when I just first moved here and I was a freshman in high school, I was big into Sonic Youth. They have the song, Chapel Hill. Like, the Cradle is mentioned, I'm pretty sure, by name. It's a very magical place. There's something about it that makes it different from other venues, it feels very homely in a way. And I can't exactly pinpoint why, but it does.
EIC: Yeah, I just feel so comfortable there. I guess it depends on the shows you go to, but everybody in the crowd just seems so cool. I mean, we all just hang out at the Cradle, like that's where we hang out with each other, basically, when we're seeing shows. But we all went to see Alex G on Halloween there, and we dressed up as, like It's Always Sunny characters from the Nightmare Cometh episode, and we all just started talking to the people around us, asking them what they were dressed up as. We met somebody who's dressed up as Nick Cave, and Agent Cooper from Twin Peaks. It's just like a really cool place where you can meet people with the same interests and music taste as you. You just feel comfortable around them because you like the same artists and kind of have the same, like, interests and artistic morals, like supporting smaller bands.
NM: There's something in the walls because it doesn't feel like a normal club, either. If you go to other clubs to see a show or venues around there, you'll find, obviously, there are tons of amazing venues, but none of them feel like the Cat’s Cradle. Like, you can tell even just by being in there.
EVC: It's so cool because it always has such a wide age range. There are shows, like, where Nathan and I were at, where Nathan could say that we were the only two people there under fifty years old. But then there are so many shows where every single person you're with is younger or in college, going to UNC Chapel Hill or just in the local area. It just kind of reminds me that there is a really big audience for music, for all types of music. They host everything from electronic music, I mean, like when Machine Girl played the Cat's Cradle. I didn't go, but everyone I knew went, and that's where all of my friends were going. But then, you can find like Lamb Chop playing there, or something like that. They'll have anyone play there and anyone can go there. It's perfect for everyone.
SG: I really like the way you describe it as a gathering place and I think that's so true, and I've always felt that way when I go there. Nathan, to your point about there just being like something in the walls, do you think part of that is this history, because it has such a storied history, that you kind of feel surrounded by? There’s almost this legend of all the bands that have played there, whether you're a famous band or you're a local band kind of just getting your start. Do you think that that's part of it?
NM: Yeah, I definitely do. I remember they had the Cat’s Cradle Fiftieth Anniversary thing and I went to one of the nights of that back when it happened. Back where the merch table normally is, they had all of these old flyers and tour posters and stuff of all the people who had come through and played it before. It was so surreal. You'd see Bad Brains and then you'd see Nirvana, and then all these other classic really famous bands that also came through and got their start playing, or were already established playing the Cradle. But I guess all these storied, classic bands that have played it. Yeah. How much stuff has happened there is really amazing. And the fact that it's still here, because most venues are legendary for a bit, and then they shut down. Like Maxwell's in New York was this, like, legendary venue, and then it shut down.
EVC: It’s Hoboken, New Jersey, Nathan. It's a New Jersey thing.
NM: I’m sorry. No, I mixed it up. Not Maxwell’s. What's the other one? Baby’s All Right? No, Baby’s All Right is still open. I don’t know. I can’t keep places straight in my head. But most venues don’t last that long. Even stories ones like CBGB is gone. So the fact that Cat’s Cradle is still standing is a testament to something.
SG: My mom used to go to CBGB back in the day.
EVC: It's crazy, because it was so popular.
SG: I've heard, I mean, I've grown up on stories of this place. Yeah, but you're right.
EVC: And everyone knows about it. But it's gone.
SG: It's gone. And I think that's what is really cool about this area and Cat’s Cradle specifically, is the way in which it is living history, and it's also creating this new history. It's bringing all these people together that are going out and creating new projects. Whether that's you two, whether that is, like, a local band that gets their start there, whether it's a showcase. I think they're doing some stuff with spoken word and, like, club nights now, which is really cool. One thing I want to touch on that you guys kind of brought up a little bit is you were at the show by yourself, I'm assuming, the one you met at, correct?
EVC: We were there with our parents. They were the fifty year olds. [laughs]
NM: I went with my dad.
SG: I think that's actually even better in a lot of ways, and then you found each other. But one thing that I feel like I talk to a lot of people about is, they want to get involved in live music, they want to start going to shows, and people are afraid to go and do things by themselves. And it's exactly like what you were saying, you have to kind of go to these places to be in this gathering place and to meet other people with similar interests. Right?
But what would you say to someone who's afraid, you know, they've moved to a new city, they don't know anybody, and you want to get involved in the scene. You want to meet new people. Do you go? I feel like I go to places by myself, but people think I'm crazy for that. What are your thoughts on that?
EVC: I mean, I'm going through that right now. I just moved to Asheville, and there's all these things, like, bands coming through, and I’m like, I love these bands. I love these artists, you know, and I want to go, but I'm like, I don't have my friends to go with anymore. What do I do? I don't have my sister to go with anymore. She came to all the shows with me. What am I going to do? I don't know. It's scary. It really is. I’m one of those people who would have trouble just putting myself out there and just going.
But if you want it really badly, I guess you have to try. It’s like— I’m starting college right now, and I wanted to do this songwriters ensemble that they have at our school, and I was like, oh, man, I'm going to totally flunk the audition, or whatever. But I was like, well, if I want to meet people who are also into music, and also are writing music, and who I could collaborate with, the least I could do is try to get in and try to get to a place where I can meet them. So, you know, I gave it my best shot, and hopefully it leads to good things.
I think that's kind of what you have to do. The people that get the most done in their local scenes or whatever are the people who are trailblazers. And it takes a very special person, it’s difficult, but you can totally teach yourself to go to shows, to talk to people, to be social. It is super hard, though. It's really hard. I don't know how to do it. I'm still trying. But it's cool to see someone or hear from someone like you, Spencer, who's like, I'm going to this many shows in a week and I'm trying to make something and I have this podcast, and that's the stuff that makes things happen. And I think that was what Nathan and I did, was we're like, okay, this is all a dream, but if you just leave it at that, that's all it can be.
SG: I'm really glad you brought it back to that. That was exactly where I was kind of going with this. And I do want to say, even going to stuff alone— I am twenty four. I didn't start doing that until literally this summer. And then it's just like you said— I was like, there's all these bands I want to go see, I'm in this place, I don't know anybody. There's all this stuff I want to do. I'm interested— both as an individual and through Good Folk— is the question of how we are creating artistic community. There are so many cool people everywhere, but especially here, doing really amazing things. How can we bring them together? That is a huge part of what we want to do here. And also just me as a person.
But I think it's so much easier said than done. And the pros and cons of Gen Z, which I'm like slightly on the outskirt of, is that we are also entrenched on the Internet. And I do want to get to that because you talked about kind of the start of the label being really dependent on the Internet. I think that's super cool and unique and really part of what makes Trash Tape so amazing. But it used to be a lot more accepted, I think, for people to go places alone pre-Internet and social media. Whereas now it's like you're supposed to kind of already have this intrinsic community. And if you are a young artist trying to build that community, it's not easy. A lot of the time it's like, well, I can imagine it, I can picture it, but it's just a dream if I don't do anything with it. But sometimes you just have to shut up and do it. If you all want to go back to this journey of that moment where like, all right, we've been talking about this, we've been wanting to do this. Let's just do it. What was that like? And Eilee, if you want to chime in as well on this.
EIC: I don't know, it was more Evren and Nathan's thing of starting it. But I knew that I really wanted to work in the music business. I really want to be able to help artists get their story and their artistic ideas across and out there. So when Evren told me they started a label with Nathan, I was like, oh, I really want to be a part of this. Also, I just wanted to meet the people on the label because they seemed really creative and I know how creative Evren and Nathan are and the type of people they would surround themselves with. So I just wanted to be a part of it. It's been really cool getting to just hear everybody's stories and see how they go about making music and sharing it and getting to share their projects with my friends and try and spread the word about Trash Tape, too.
This is kind of going off topic, but something you said before reminded me of this, just about being an Internet label and creating a community in our area and in person is difficult, but we did a lot of growing this summer. One really nice thing about having the Internet community is that when we did go on tour, we just would have some people show up in D.C. or Atlanta. It was nice to have those Internet friends that we had made and just small connections and seeing them in person and getting to meet them and make those connections even stronger was really special.
NM: I think that whole Internet aspect of it with touring is really big because up until, like, I guess this summer, there wasn’t much of a local scene that we were involved in. It did end up sort of coming to fruition at the end of the summer, I guess, starting with the tour and ending right before everybody moved out.
But being on tour makes it feel like this scene that we had built online, it felt real then. We were able to play with all these bands that we knew and were friends with and, like, see all these people that we knew and were friends with, and do all these things that we had wanted to do for a while. It felt like touring was a way to break out of whatever we were doing for a little bit. But it didn’t feel entirely like leaving what we were doing, more like the scene that we're building and the musical stuff that we’re doing becoming more real than it ever had been before. It didn't feel just like a tour through all those places. It felt like we were going through different places to see people.
EVC: Yeah. I think that the nature of the scene has changed completely just because of what we have now. Like, what Nathan was saying about going on this tour and being in many different places, but not feeling like we're anywhere uncharted or in uncharted territory. Like, we knew people everywhere we went, and we were playing with people we either knew a little or loved and knew a lot in every single city. I think that kind of just makes it so that a scene now just spreads across anywhere. It really can go anywhere. Back in decades ago when, say, you can even go back to sixties, seventies, but also the nineties, which Nathan and I are probably most inspired by, those are just, like, state areas or city areas. Like Merge Records and Superchunk are all like Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Durham. It's just a little section, and we were trying to build a bit of that physical connection. But it's almost like that's kind of become… not obsolete, but it's like you can also branch out so far and meet people there.
I think we're bringing it inwards now. Because we actually got to do something physical with it and play shows, we were able to, like, show it to our friends and the people locally who cared, and then we kind of brought it together. Like, people now were aware of it and we made something of it. We played the Haw River Ballroom with a few of our friends bands, and it was just the most amazing experience because it felt like all of it had actualized. It’s like we spread out and then brought it back in. It was pretty cool.
NM: It felt like what homecoming seems like and sounds like it should be.
SG: I think that's so beautiful. The Haw River Ballroom is my personal favorite venue, I think, ever.
EVC: Same.
SG: I will live and die for the Haw River Ballroom. I was just having this conversation with someone earlier today. I was like, it's the coolest place and they get the coolest people. For anyone who's not aware of your tour, could you tell us a little bit more about it? How was that process of— you've had this record label for about two years, deciding to go on tour, how do you choose the artists you're going to showcase? What does that process look like? Where did you go? And then kind of this moment of homecoming, bringing it back to that.
NM: So about last fall, we had all been sort of talking. We have a label group chat with all the people involved in it. It started as a joke that we should go on tour, like, this would be cool. It was something we all obviously wanted to do, but it initially wasn't entirely serious. Then after talking more about it, we all sort of decided that it was something that we totally could do and very well within reach. We started emailing lots of people, messaging people with a little bit of touring experience on how they did it. People who live in all these different places with trying to help us book shows and get places to stay and bands to play with and all that. This is what went on for months and months, our just planning every single day. I spent a decent amount of time working on this from, like, October up until when we left.
As far as picking artists to go with us, it was just artists on the label that were most able to tour, the most ready and most willing. Location obviously played a factor, because we were touring on the East Coast of the U.S. So it was all going to be artists from the East Coast. It ended up being Hill View #73 from Atlanta, us from the Triangle area, and then Koudi from New Jersey, which was nice because it sort of divided the East Coast into three different points where each band was from, giving us three homes to stop in, which was very nice. It was cool, I guess, having everybody be close, because, for example, with Hill View, we all played in Hill View, which is fronted by a friend and it's all their songs, but they needed a band to tour with. Since they were close, they were able to come up to North Carolina and then we all rehearsed together and got tight and then played together in the band on tour.
Listen to the bands on tour in Trash Tape’s curated playlist, below.
EIC: Also, something that was really cool about the tour was that Hill View had just released their EP, Songs I Wrote Skipping Classes, on May 31st and we started our tour at the end of June. Then Koudi released their album Gilgamesh on July 4th. So it was fun that we got to also promote those two records and play all the songs from the Hill View #73 EP and then hear all the Koudi songs. We ended the tour in New Jersey, so that was like Koudi's record release party. It was just a lot of fun and we all got super close and I think we all just bonded over our love of music and playing constantly all the time. That was something really cool about the tour.
Something else that was really cool about the tour was that we played Virginia Beach and we got to play with another band on our label, Hippie Love Party, and that was just so much fun. Evren and Nathan had already played a show with them and met them, but it was really cool for me to get to meet them and just meet so many people that I had talked to online for months or years and actually get to meet them in person. That's really cool.
NM: I also wanted to mention that Evren played drums in all three bands on tour too. Because of the whole idea of the scene drummer, like one drummer who plays drums for every band in a scene does not go away when the scene is decentralized.
EVC: Okay, but the thing when you're talking about that, it made me really happy, because I was talking just before about how Elephant 6 and reading up about that and learning about that inspired me. And the main thing that inspired me was that everyone was lending their talents, whatever they could do. If someone played an obscure instrument like the singing saw, you could hear that singing song on another one of the artists’ records and you could see that collaboration happening. It kind of just clicked with me that all of us playing for Hill View #73, and them playing for us in Welcome to Berlin, and me playing for Koudi and all the bands is that principle. It’s the idea that we're all helping each other out, that we’re there to provide whatever we can for the betterment of each other and to hopefully foster a community and help each other's art reach its maximum potential. I think that's what we're all attempting to do.
SG: Yeah, that is exactly what we're attempting to do. I think that's an incredible concept. That if you can bring community together in art, you can create all kinds of amazing new things. So many artistic careers are approached from this individualistic lens that you're doing it yourself, you're alone in your bedroom. I'm a writer. That is considered, like, the loneliest artistic practice. And it shouldn't be, because when you can bring together people— well, I guess that's kind of like your role as a record label, right, is to identify people who are good at all these different things and bring them together in these really cool, unique ways to create something new and something beautiful.
NM: I wanted to add something real quick to the whole individualist pursuit of art. Because I do see so many, I guess, newer artists trying to make it by themselves in the Internet, like through Instagram ads and emails and buying playlist spots and stuff like that. All that seems super convoluted and ineffective. When you look throughout history, most great art and artists came out of groups of people. It's very rare that you'll see somebody just make it entirely on their own. And even if you do make it entirely on your own, it's not going to be the same as making it with all your friends and all of you doing something together. It's lonely and it's sad if you're not creating with other people, or even to a degree for other people. Because obviously we all find fulfillment from our own art, or I’d hope so. But part of creating, if you're part of a scene or a group of people, it's like you're all creating to show for yourself, but also for this community that you enjoy being in. And you feel like creating or contributing something new to this community because the community itself brings something to you. All of that just goes away when you try to make it individualistically.
EVC: There’s totally a romanticized individualism in art. Of being like, this is my creation, and it must be unfiltered, and nobody else can touch it because this is me. And that has happened a lot with the DIY indie stuff. I mean, bands like Car Seat Headrest or The Microphones, some of the most influential acts for artists of our age making indie music, all ride on the idea that it's one person. And it can be interesting. But actually accomplishing that can be so difficult because we are our worst critics. Where we have trouble coming up with sometimes the best ideas, you need collaboration. Nathan and I do Welcome to Berlin together. That's our band, that's what we toured on. And if I try to do something for Welcome to Berlin, I try to write something I can't, then Nathan and I will sit for two hours and play and we'll write a whole song right there and it's our best material. That is kind of how I enjoy creating art. Everyone's different, but it's like there's some sort of magic that comes together when multiple people share something, have their input, are able to collaborate and create something grander than what could have been imagined.
“We all derive importance from the people and the things around us, and that extends to what we make. What we make will become more important to us and better if it's built around this bond between people.”
NM: There's lots of people who make stuff by themselves. It's obviously not easy, but it's easier to access creating stuff by yourself than it is to go out of your way to find the collaborators that make you feel good and make stuff with them. But I guess when you do find the right collaborators in the right situations, what you're going to make is going to be infinitely more special than what you made by yourself, in the same way that your life is going to be way more fulfilling if you spend it with your friends than if you spend it alone. We all derive importance from the people and the things around us, and that extends to what we make. What we make will become more important to us and better if it's built around this bond between people.
SG: To your point about community, which I think is so great, because it's so easy in theory to have this idea of like, yes, everything is better in community, right? I think all of us here would probably agree with that. But that element of finding community is what is so hard. And you all touched on the Internet a little bit at the beginning and I want to return to that and the early days of Trash Tape. How are you finding people? You're kind of working with this network that you have, but do you think the Internet is a tool that can really bring people together? There are so many mixed perspectives about this. But as a label that has primarily found a lot of people, you know, you have musicians worldwide. How do you find these people? Do they find you? In what ways have you used that tool?
NM: It's a mix.
EVC: It’s all over the place. But Nathan’s got this, because I think Nathan really set this up, to be honest.
NM: We get a lot of emails and Instagram messages and stuff with SoundCloud links, Google Drive files, all that kind of stuff. People who make their own music or have their bands and find that they want to try to be a part of something, they’re looking for a community, or a lot of times it's also people just like looking for distributors, or whatever. Which is really different than, I guess, the type of people we try to find. Because we don't want to just distribute something. But yeah, it's a lot of people reaching out to us. We also find artists on Bandcamp and stuff. I know Evren has found a lot of artists through the internet that we've reached out to as well. So I guess it's a mix, but we probably receive more submissions than artists that we find.
EVC: Yeah, it's hard to narrow everything down sometimes. I mean, we get so much amazing music and we also just find so much stuff. There's so much stuff out there now, especially because of the Internet. I think it really has brought community together and it comes in all ways. Like Awsaf, who makes Hill View #73, is now one of our best friends and one of our artists that has a pretty awesome cult following, people who like their music and want to hear more and are interested in it. And I don't even remember how they got on the label. I think they might have just submitted their stuff.
NM: Yeah, they submitted a SoundCloud link because they saw us as a recommended page on Instagram.
EVC: Yeah, it's just really random stuff. For instance, I worked on this record with a friend of mine who lives in Sweden, in Stockholm, and we met on the site Write Your Music. It's just like a site where you just discuss music and things, and we met on there randomly. I liked his record, he messaged me and then we started making music and we wrote a record. All of this stuff is so random, and it's just a new form of community. Like, I think it's interesting that this show is kind of based on community in a location, and we're kind of community everywhere. I think that's amazing about the modern age.